General usage restriction questions thread:
CTP usage questions should be posted here.

Moderators: Winterhawk99, Mermut, Bannor Bloodfist, Black Rider

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Bannor Bloodfist
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ctp: Yes
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Post by Bannor Bloodfist »

[quote=dsabrae;14248]But would the CTP team be willing to provide this? Failing that, I would like to request the ability to host said file for use on my PW. A little feed back on this would be greatly appreciated as im in the midst of remaking my server at this point and it would be great to include some of this content again.[/quote]

Umm... Not really sure how hosting from your website is ANY different from a direct link to the vault?

The downside to YOUR hosting it would be that you would be responsible to re-download, and reset your host image file any time we patch. You also have to link to CTP_Common, and probably CTP_Loadscreens, which both will change with every patch to ANY tileset.

As to that .erf tool thing, it is something that is being worked on, but won't be available anytime soon I expect. So far, no one has provided a useful solution to where the (patch) files will be hosted from. At this stage, hosting from someone's PW just doesn't cut it, as I have personally seen several dozen 'prominent' PW's start up, and disappear of the last few years. If we provide a patching service, it MUST be hosted from a site that is not going to disappear just because some PW owner got bored, pissed or moved on to something else.

So far, the only reliable location for files has proven to be the vault. They will exist long after NWN is just a pipe dream in some players mind. This means, that the only patch, is a FULL release patch. Overrides suck. Having to adjust your PW to include an additional 'patch'.hak file, never happens, or when it does, it is done incorrectly. I am constantly seeing questions on Bioware forums about hak order...

So, for the foreseeable future, don't expect some erf patch scheme. (Besides, I have heard that the erf tool can insert a virus? ;P [that has been said about every OTHER patch scheme out there, so why not this one?])

Estelindis
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Post by Estelindis »

Okay, so we'll rule out the CTP being hosted off-vault. But do we have to rule out all the CTP haks being packed in one compressed archive and available as a single download? Of course, if individual haks were updated subsequently, they could be downloaded individually (as those will stay up for download, just as they are now). But it really might make things a bit handier for a lot of people. Again, let me emphasise that I'm suggesting that each tileset keeps its own hak - we just put them all (and Common and Loadscreens) in one download for the convenience of those who want them all. Yes/no?

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DM_Mask
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Post by DM_Mask »

[quote=Estelindis;14251] Yes/no?[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.rpgmodding.com/forums/images ... icon14.gif[/IMG]

dsabrae
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Post by dsabrae »

[quote=Bannor Bloodfist;14250]Umm... Not really sure how hosting from your website is ANY different from a direct link to the vault?

The downside to YOUR hosting it would be that you would be responsible to re-download, and reset your host image file any time we patch. You also have to link to CTP_Common, and probably CTP_Loadscreens, which both will change with every patch to ANY tileset.

][/I])[/quote]

No a direct link on the vault is preferrably but you cited a reluctance to the speed of updates being performed by BTP. Changing the haks is pretty much a given and you have to do it anytime content changes anyway so it really means one more click to upload a new large version.

That being said i'm looking for a simple yes/no here if this is something that can be done so I can either choose to use this content or grab something else that is less annoying to manage, how its made available is certainly up in the air for me but a single point click download seems easiest for contnet producers and users.

thanks again for your time.

Estelindis
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Post by Estelindis »

For the record, in case it was in doubt, I'm a yes.

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Bannor Bloodfist
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Post by Bannor Bloodfist »

[quote=dsabrae;14273]No a direct link on the vault is preferrably but you cited a reluctance to the speed of updates being performed by BTP. Changing the haks is pretty much a given and you have to do it anytime content changes anyway so it really means one more click to upload a new large version.

That being said i'm looking for a simple yes/no here if this is something that can be done so I can either choose to use this content or grab something else that is less annoying to manage, how its made available is certainly up in the air for me but a single point click download seems easiest for contnet producers and users.

thanks again for your time.[/quote]

There are dozens of combo haks that offer 25-50 tilesets in one big bundle. That really is not what CTP is about, we are about quality.

You have been told it will happen, as to when, well, the answer to that is 'whenever I get it done'. I have a life outside of NWN, and I have to manage multiple things regarding CTP as it is. I get messages requesting that I keep things as they are, I get messages requesting that we develop other stuff and stop working on something someone is not particularly interested in, and I get messages like this from you demanding that I jump and create some big hak pak to upload to make their life easier.

In fact, there are MANY other authors that have excellent tilesets out there. Most of those are also placed on the vault in the same fashion ours is. IE, single page, but with multiple downloads links. In fact, I don't think I have seen any that have created custom work that has a single link for everything.

So basically I am in no real rush to create that single download, most especiallly when I have fixes/patches coming for several sets at once, and have not had a chance to get those tested and uploaded yet.

If the sole decision making point is having a single download, then I guess your end players are out of luck. and I would suggest that you move on. We may provide that at some future point in time, but that time is not right this minute, and probably not for several months.

P.S. By the way, requests are one thing, your request was noted, and was being duly considered, demands followed by threats are something else entirely and typically backfire, as this one just did.

Estelindis
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Post by Estelindis »

Bannor, one of the rest of us could do it - unless there are some very specific things you want to check while putting the larger download together.

And I really don't see it as a "threat" to say that people will look for a more convenient download if they find this inconvenient. "Threat" implies that this would damage or hurt us, but I have trouble seeing how this would be the case. We make this stuff, because we like it, and people use it or not, as they like. Perhaps you would like to have a private discussion with me if there's just something I'm not getting?

dsabrae
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Post by dsabrae »

Im very sorry you took my post in the manner you did it certainly wasnt intended as such and I still dont see where it was posted that it would happen in time however, thankyou for the direct response.

---
P.S. By the way, requests are one thing, your request was noted, and was being duly considered, demands followed by threats are something else entirely and typically backfire, as this one just did.
---

I was perfectly content to wait, never issued any threats, my use of this content or not is hardly some sort of coersion that im aware of I dont see anyone losing sleep over what tileset is used and your implying such is really quite prickish when a simple yes or no on your part could a solved this over a week and a half ago.

If in the future you invite people to ask questions and make requests you may find they are more willing to do so when you entertain those requests with something more than a vague blow off and leading responces.

I had to go back and reread this thread to be certain I didnt just.. miss... something, but im really pretty sure after reviewing it that I never implied, threatend or did a thing to deserve the kind of response you gave. I do hope content providers look on this when they decide to join your team and carefully consider that distributer of their work likes to wave his mouse around to the very people whom use these creations uploading a single hak would take all of 10 mins or if you like 10 mins X the number of times you update the vault. I certainly appreciate being busy as does any server admin with a player base, requests, comments and general chit chat aside theres a lot of work involved in running any community and im sure you have a full plate. That however doesnt excuse being rude which is all you accomplished here. I hope other content providers look on this when they consider joining your team because I am pretty certain not everyone is quite as curt as yovue been when interacting with the people whom make use of this content.

Per your advise we will cease using this stuff and go back to the older versions that are no strings attached. While its true those people that choose to play on my world will lose out on some good content those whom that are aware of this thread will more than understand the reasons why, as my asking for a full download was on their behalf after being asked myself more than once for a installer.

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DM_Mask
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Post by DM_Mask »

[quote=dsabrae;14273]That being said i'm looking for a simple yes/no here if this is something that can be done so I can either choose to use this content or grab something else that is less annoying to manage, how its made available is certainly up in the air for me but a single point click download seems easiest for content producers and users.[/quote]

Emphasis is mine. Dsa, to be blunt that can easily be misread as "I hear what I want, or drop it." If one reads it that way(and I don't think its a far leap to make) it can come across with a fairly negative attitude, and seeming reluctant to consider anything other than "Yessir, we gonna do it right now sir!"

Now in light of the fact you've heard the answer you want, more than once
[quote=Bannor Bloodfist;14156]But yes, it is possible to create a single download.

Downside is, that folks would be required to re-download the entire package each time, and believe me, that 'package' is getting rather large now[/quote]

[quote=Bannor Bloodfist;14275]You have been told it will happen, as to when, well, the answer to that is 'whenever I get it done'. I have a life outside of NWN, and I have to manage multiple things regarding CTP as it is.

So basically I am in no real rush to create that single download, most especially when I have fixes/patches coming for several sets at once, and have not had a chance to get those tested and uploaded yet.

If the sole decision making point is having a single download, then I guess your end players are out of luck. and I would suggest that you move on. We may provide that at some future point in time, but that time is not right this minute, and probably not for several months.[/quote]

I'm sorry your bent out of shape, and I'd have sworn this topic was hashed out before you brought it up last week(can't seem to find where though, predictably) But if you re-read the topic.. the Absence of a defined "No", combined with the number of positive responses presents a pretty clear picture, even without the explained reasons why there isn't such at the moment.

Tybae
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Post by Tybae »

For the record, I am in favor of the way CTP does things and thank CTP for even putting content out. I have a great respect for the CTP team and hope that they continue their work. Whatever CTP decides to do with their content is fine by me. If I have to spend a bit of extra time when patches are relased/updated, I have no problem doing so. After all, CTP does not have to provide the community with content as they do not get paid, it's just a labor of love.

Are there things that the CTP can do to make things easier on the builder, sure, but I'm not going to expect, nor demand that they do so. I'm just thankful for the content.

My 2 copper. :)

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